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A conversation with Aavegotchi’s Jesse Johnson

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Non-Fungible Tokens (NFTs), once the red-headed stepchild to more popular smart contract implementations, are finally beginning to have their day in the sun. 

Average purchase prices of NFTs on peer-to-peer exchanges are rising sky-high. Six-figure sales are no longer uncommon. Dapper Labs, the minds behind the great-granddaddy of NFT collectible projects, CryptoKitties, have attracted significant investment for their native blockchain Flow — including investment from NBA stars. 

All this progress leads some to wonder, however: where are NFTs going next?

One person who might be able to glean some insight is Aavegotchi co-founder Jesse Johnson. Johnson was working with asset-backed products in the NFT space long before they became widely popular. One of his early efforts, Bullionix, was among the first platforms to offer NFTs backed by real-world commodities — specifically, gold. 

With Aavegotchi, Johnson is moving beyond meatspace assets and taking asset-backed NFTs into a whole new realm: decentralized finance (DeFi). 

According to the Aavegotchi litepaper, Aavegotchi are digital collectibles backed by Aave interest-bearing aTokens. Using a blend of NFT token standards including ERC-721 and ERC-998, Aavegotchi feature a combination of traits that determine their value, including random traits determined at their minting, the value of aTokens staked, and NFT-backed “wearables” — ‘child’ NFTs that can be programmatically tied to each Aavegotchi. 

In an interview with Cointelegraph, Johnson revealed that the Aavegotchi team is now up to 9 full-time employees, and that they also count a small army of volunteer artists and enthusiastic community members as part of their ranks. Moving forward, Johnson aims to bring Aavegotchi deeper into the DeFi fold, mixing NFTs and this explosive, emerging financial vertical in exciting new ways. 

After speaking with him, one thing became clear: this is just the beginning for both NFTs and Aavegotchi. 

NFTs Move Beyond Farming

Cointelegraph: How do NFTs fit into DeFi in a meaningful way? An NFT can create digital scarcity and it can be individualized, but what unique properties of NFTs as smart contracts will be specifically useful and important for DeFi? 

Jesse Johnson: I think that there are certain things we’re already seeing with yield farming. There’s this idea of farming for NFTs, and that’s fine — I feel like right now everybody’s just kind of trying it out — but in terms of real DeFi you should be able to get more interesting NFT products.

What if an NFT you farm is a key to a certain liquidity pool, or it’s a promissory note — it has some sort of action like that, where it’s guaranteeing you something from another platform. I think you could start to see alliances, so to speak, because there’s really not a word for it, but you’d have all this interoperability between all the DeFi platforms. If there could be standard NFTs that are accepted across platforms as a certain value or almost like badges that you earn at one platform and are accepted at another, you’ll start to see NFTs used for integrating all these platforms in very interesting ways.

Badges — I used to think of badges just strictly in terms of gaming, but actually they could be a lot more. 

For instance, if you want a DeFi loan right now, with the great majority of the loans it’s gonna be up to your collateral — it’s not your credit score, it’s your collateral.

“But I think one of the really exciting things that NFTs can help solve is this idea of reputation system that permeates across Web3, so regardless of which platform you’re on, and even if you want to be quasi-anonymous.”

As long as you hold that NFT that shows you have this kind of reputation earned, and the NFT has been in this wallet X amount of time, you could start to find solutions to a kind of credit score system where, okay we do a check, you’ve got half a dozen badges — because of those badges, their point of origin and their time in your wallet, you qualify for a better rate — something like that. 

I don’t think that we can point to a project that’s doing that right now, but I see that as very possible, and it makes sense as a solution to needing a reputation system that preserves some degree of anonymity. I think that could be very exciting.

CT: It sounds like you’re almost bringing that NFT gaming concept of the metaverse to DeFi with the interoperability and the plug-and-play qualities. It’s sort of using NFTs as a reputation and interoperability layer.

JJ: Yep, yep. Because all the wallets accept 721s, it just satisfies those requirements of something that is interoperable across anything, at least on Ethereum. So you could really go pretty far and wide and then. We’ll probably see a lot of examples of that.

It’s not the primary use case of Aavegotchi, but it is something we’re aware of. 

“We’re thinking of the Aavegotchi as existing within our world but also being an avatar that can traverse the metaverse, and more than the metaverse, traverse all of Web3.”

Maybe if an Aavegotchi is in your wallet, and you go to visit Uniswap, they actually acknowledge, ‘oh you have an Aavegotchi that’s two years old and has staked a lot of a tokens for X amount of time and holds five or six badges’ — because your Aavegotchi holds badges. So we are in a way making a play on that, where we want to start seeing how our Aavegotchi can communicate with other DApps and actually earn badges from those DApps. 

NFTs can do the job better than any one particular set of smart contracts or DApp, because with the contracts you’re reliant on a certain UI or dashboard. But the NFT can run around through all these different DApps and kind of create a chain of custody or chain of history detailing how you earned it, when you earned it — did you earn it? Or was it passed to you by another wallet?

It could be very exciting because in real-world finance they’re kind of equally important, if not the credit score is more important than the collateral. But with DeFi right now pretty limited to the collateral side.

“Five years from now we’re gonna be on a whole different level with real NFTs of consequence, which is one way I talk about it — NFTs that really have an impact on your bottom line, and they’re more than just a collectible.”

New Money, New Users

CT: Speaking of the bottom line, it seems like NFTs are either on the cusp of in the midst of a huge moment. I’m thinking about Dapper’s monster raise, and the major sale numbers that seem to go up every week. What are NFTs going to look like when there’s a whole lot more money sloshing around? 

JJ: I think there’ll be good and bad. The bad is pretty obvious, and you’re going to see the issues we’ve already seen, but on a larger scale.

“I love eliminating barriers to entry, but you can get a lot of scam artists, and NFT scams might be the trickiest of all the types of crypto scams.”

When you look at a collectible on a marketplace, you think the visuals are there, the metadata looks ok on the front maybe, and then you realize you have check this smart contract and see if it’s in the same smart contract as what you really think you’re buying. You see these problems a lot.

Anybody can make anything, including scams. And that’s tricky because the philosophy is all about breaking down the barriers. So I am totally with that. But you’ll see more scams, and probably some big scandals and some people will get hurt, you know. So that’s the part to look out for and try to prevent. 

On the good side, you’re going to see more participants, but you’re going to see people that are just playing to earn. I love the idea of changing the idea of gaming, where you actually get some rewards for your attention, right? Every advertisement, everything’s battling for people’s attention, and technically, games are too. But the sincerity or the level of loyalty to the project is where it gets a little mystified, where you’re going to have, you know, maybe huge numbers, but are they just going to leave as soon as the coins go down in price, or there’s a dip or there’s whatever, like, they just kind of leave the game for the next one that makes money. 

I think the only way to address that is with a very addictive game and a very strong ethos that everybody shares. And then you get through those rough patches and ultimately grow more and more. 

Scandals to Come

CT: I’m trying to imagine what a big NFT scandal looks like. Are people putting celebrity nudes on the blockchain or something? How does an NFT project go totally haywire, you know, aside from some big forgery?

JJ: That’s an interesting one. I mean, if you have art or information that’s completely on-chain, you could see that kind of scandal where it’s classified information or something extremely lewd, and you can’t remove it. That’ll probably happen at some point, right, somebody will do something to that effect. 

In Aavegotchi’s case, we want to open things up where everybody can make wearables. It wouldn’t really be a scandal, but what if, oh, somebody made a wearable that is lewd or something.

So actually, there’s an answer for that, too, with DAOs. I think Rarible is also doing something where you can whitelist or blacklist things based on community members that take the time to kind of flag certain content is not safe for work, that kind of thing. And we’ll have probably something similar, I think most projects will have some sort of curation. Then the DAO can recognize that, say ‘yes, what you claimed is true,’ and then you get your reward.

CT: To wrap up, is there anything you want to tease the Aavegotchi community?

JJ: One key fact to be aware of is the upcoming raffle for network stakers. It’s event based, and I like how it comes to a conclusion, it comes to a head at a certain time, at a certain place, and everybody gets that kind of pay off. They know they won, they lost, the winners are announced, NFT wearables are distributed, all automated. 

So that’ll be November 10th, it will be the first one, and I think that’s going to generate a lot of interest across the crypto space. The first 24 hours of $GHST staking saw over 24% of our entire token supply get staked. It was one percent an hour, so it’s quite impressive. November 10th will be the first raffle and we want to do three of these before the mainnet launch around Christmas time.

 I don’t think a lot of people are aware, they think it’s a one-off, and then that’s the end of the game. But no, this is just the first of many. 



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Blockchain

Bringing carbon emissions reporting into the new age via blockchain

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Blockchain for supply chain management is one of the most practical business applications for large, multi-party sectors seeking trust and transparency across daily operations. As such, the mining and metals sector has now started to leverage blockchain technology to effectively track carbon emissions across complex, global supply chains. 

This month, the World Economic Forum launched a proof-of-concept to trace carbon emissions across the supply chains of seven mining and metals firms. Known as the Mining and Metals Blockchain Initiative, or MMBI, this is a collaboration between the WEF and industry companies including Anglo American, Antofagasta Minerals, Eurasian Resources Group, Glencore, Klöckner & Co., Minsur, and Tata Steel.

Jörgen Sandström, head of the WEF’s Mining and Metals Industry, told Cointelegraph that the distributed nature of blockchain technology makes it the perfect solution for companies within the sector looking to trace carbon emissions:

“Forward-thinking organizations in the mining and metals space are starting to understand the disruptive potential of blockchain to solve pain points, while also recognizing that the industry-wide collaboration around blockchain is necessary.”

According to Sandström, many blockchain projects intended to support responsible sourcing have been bilateral, resulting in a fractured system. However, this new initiative from the WEF is driven entirely by the mining and metals industry and aims to demonstrate blockchain’s full potential to track carbon emissions across the entire value chain.

While vast, the current proof-of-concept is focused on tracing carbon emissions in the copper value chain, Sandström shared. He also explained that a private blockchain network powered by Dutch blockchain development company Kryha is being leveraged to track greenhouse gas emissions from the mine to the smelter and all the way to the original equipment manufacturer. Sandström mentioned that the platform’s vision is to create a carbon emissions blueprint for all essential metals, demonstrating mine-to-market-and-back via recycling.

To put things in perspective, according to a recent report from McKinsey & Company, mining is currently responsible for 4% to 7% of greenhouse gas emissions globally. The document states that Scope 1 and Scope 2 CO2 emissions from the sector (those incurred through mining operations and power consumption) amount to 1%, while fugitive-methane emissions from coal mining are estimated at 3% to 6%. Additionally, 28% of global emissions is considered Scope 3, or indirect emissions, including the combustion of coal.

Unfortunately, the mining industry has been slow to meet emission-reduction goals. The document notes that current targets published by mining companies range from 0% to 30% by 2030 — well below the goals laid out in the Paris Agreement. Moreover, the COVID-19 crisis has exacerbated the sector’s unwillingness to change. A blog post from Big Four firm Ernest & Young shows that decarbonization and a green agenda will be one of the biggest business opportunities for mining and metals companies in 2021, as these have become prominent issues in the wake of the pandemic. Sandström added:

“The industry needs to respond to the increasing demands of minerals and materials while responding to increasing demands by consumers, shareholders and regulators for a higher degree of sustainability and traceability of the products.”

Why blockchain?

While it’s clear that the mining and metals industry needs to reduce carbon emissions to meet sustainability standards and other goals, blockchain is arguably a solution that can deliver just that in comparison to other technologies.

This concept was outlined in detail in an NS Energy op-ed written by Joan Collell, a business strategy leader and the chief commercial officer at FlexiDAO, an energy technology software provider. He explained that Scope 1, 2 and 3 emission supply chains must all be measured accurately, requiring a high level of integration and coordination between multiple supply chain networks. He added:

“Different entities have to share the necessary data for the sustainability certification of products and to guarantee their traceability. This is an essential step, since everything that can be quantified is no longer a risk, but it becomes a management problem.”

According to Collel, data sharing has two main purposes: to provide transparency and traceability. Meanwhile, the main feature of a blockchain network is to provide transparency and traceability across multiple participants. On this, Collel noted: “The distributed ledger of blockchain can register in real time the consumption data of different entities across different locations and calculate the carbon intensity of that consumption.”

Collel also noted that a digital certificate outlining the amount of energy transferred can then be produced, showing exactly where and when emissions were produced. Ultimately, blockchain can provide trust, traceability and auditability across mining and metals supply chains, thus helping reduce carbon emissions.

Data challenges may hamper productivity

While blockchain may appear as the ideal solution for tracing carbon emissions across mining and metals supply chains, data challenges must be taken into consideration.

Sal Ternullo, co-lead for U.S. Cryptoasset Services at KPMG, told Cointelegraph that capturing data cryptographically across the entire value chain will indeed transform the ability to accurately measure the carbon intensity of different metals. “It’s all about the accuracy of source, the resulting data and the intrinsic value that can be verified end to end,” he said. However, Ternullo pointed out that data capture and validation are the hardest parts of this equation:

“Where, when, how (source-cadence-process) are issues that organizations are still grappling with. There are a number of blockchain protocols and solutions that can be configured to meet this use case but the challenge of data capture and validation is often not considered to the extent that it should be.”

According to Ternullo, the sector’s lack of clear standards on how emissions should be tracked further compounds these challenges. He mentioned that while some organizations have doubled down on the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board’s capture and reporting standard, there are several other standards that must be evaluated before an organization can proceed with automation, technology and analytical components that would make these processes transparent to both shareholders and consumers.

To his point, Sandström mentioned that the current proof-of-concept focused on tracing carbon emissions in the copper value chain demonstrates that participants can collaborate and test practical solutions to sustainability issues that cannot be resolved by individual companies. At the same time, Sandström stated that the WEF is sensitive to how data is treated and shared: “Having an industry approach enables us to focus on practical and finding viable ways to deliver on our vision.”

An industry approach is also helpful, with Ternullo explaining that an organization’s operating models for culture and technology must be aligned to ensure success. This is the case with all enterprise blockchain projects that require data sharing and new ways of collaboration, which may very well be easier to overcome when performed from an industry perspective.



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The new ‘Bank of England’ is ‘no bank at all’

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As one of the first countries to industrialize in the 1760s, Britain’s manufacturing revolution instigated one of the greatest practical and ubiquitous changes in human history. But even more extraordinary than the cultural shift itself, is the fact that Britain’s industrialization remained way ahead of potential competition for decades. Only in the early 1900s did historians come to grips with the issues of causation. Max Weber’s pithy answer, “the Protestant work ethic,” pointed to Puritan seriousness, diligence, fiscal prudence and hard work. Others point to the establishment of the Bank of England in 1694 as a foundation for financial stability.

In contrast, continental Europe lurched from one national debt crisis to another, then threw itself headlong into the Napoleonic wars. Unsurprisingly, it was not until after 1815 that industrialization took place on the European mainland, where it was spearheaded by the new country of Belgium.

250 years later, another revolution has begun with the launch of Bitcoin (BTC), but this one is more commercial in nature than industrial. Though the full impact has yet to play out, the parallels between these two historical events are already striking.

Bitcoin may not match the obviousness of industrialization, but the underlying pragmatics touch on the very foundations of the non-barter economy. Like the establishment of the Bank of England, the creation of the cryptocurrency infrastructure has been prompted by ongoing and worsening threats to financial stability: systemic fault-lines created by macroeconomic challenges stemming from the 2008 financial crisis.

If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em…right?

Where a central bank once anchored financial enlightenment, it now plays the role of antagonist. For those who could “connect the dots” in 2008, there was the realization that central banks no longer existed as guardians and protectors of national currencies, but rather as tools for creating politicized market distortions, abandoning their duty to preserve wealth in favor of creating the conditions for limitless, cheap government debt. While many of the underlying intentions were benign, the process inherently worked to punish savers and reward reckless debt.

Meanwhile, it has steadily taken time for the potential of digital assets to reach their potential and approach something like critical mass, though thankfully full acceptance shouldn’t take as long as Britain’s industrial revolution. Over the past 12 years, cryptocurrencies have moved from unknown to novel to significant, growing interest. As a result, profound changes are underway, affecting the mechanics by which investors, the investment industry, wealth managers and even the commercial banking sector are engaging with cryptocurrencies.

This interest has accelerated as we enter into a period of deep economic uncertainty and growing awareness that structural soundness is shifting away from traditional investment options. Not only that, this growing financial innovation and public interest has largely occurred outside of the central banks’ control, if not outright antagonism led by the banks’ regulatory arms in government.

Now, many central banks are trying to join a game they’ve tried almost every way of beating, with digital currencies that adopt the glowing sheen of crypto innovation, but which also eschew the underlying innovations and philosophy that made those innovations so popular to begin with.

Follow or get out of the way

The popularity of cryptocurrency has largely been due to its protean fungibility — it has been whatever the independent financial community has needed it to be, from digital currency to speculative financial instruments to smart contracts that can power smart financial technology.

However hard central banks might try to co-opt the hype of cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency succeeding will mark the fundamental end of critical aspects of the central banking monopoly by offering a more competitive vehicle for facilitating commercial transactions and providing a more stable medium to store monetized assets. Cryptocurrencies actually offer real returns on “cash” deposits, something that the fiat banking system has long since abandoned. Most of all, cryptocurrencies reveal the fictitious nature of fiat currencies as a principle.

Cryptocurrencies as an ecosystem will increasingly constrain, redirect and set the parameters for government macroeconomic policies. Certainly, sound alternatives to fiat currencies will drive the latter to the periphery of commercial life, concomitantly reducing the number of tools the nation-state has at its disposal to regulate or respond to changing economic conditions. Above all, this means that government financial engagement can no longer be a rule unto itself. It will have to engage by the same principles as everyone else. A level playing field here has dramatic implications.

Against the backdrop of the essential limits of fiat currencies, current geo- and macroeconomic policies and a new emerging world order, cryptocurrencies offer vast potential as an efficiency facilitating frictionless commerce and investment, a medium of stability against uncertainty and inflation, increased security in value transfer and wealth management, optimum autonomy in an increasingly intrusive climate, and “cash” asset preservation/growth in a world of negative interest rates.

The edifice that supports the concept of a “global reserve currency” is also weakening. This will reduce political influence over global finance, as well as nations’ abilities to run a long-term balance of payments deficits, current account deficits and borrow at little or no interest. Indeed, given current trends, changes in trading mechanics may speedily evolve to the point that such “reserve currencies” no longer have a function at all. And cryptocurrency success will hasten the end of the U.S. dollar monopoly in global commerce.

The views, thoughts and opinions expressed here are the author’s alone and do not necessarily reflect or represent the views and opinions of Cointelegraph.

James Gillingham is the CEO and a co-founder of Finxflo. James is engaged in developing and implementing strategic plans and company policies, maintaining an open dialogue with stakeholders and driving organizational success. He is an expert in managing and executing high-level strategic objectives with more than 13 years’ experience in building, developing and expanding multinational organizations. His deep knowledge of financial markets, digital currencies and fintech has played a pivotal role in his success to date.